I’m knocked off and back! Wow what a cool fucking substack newsletter this was. I’m a huge Ed colver fan and was well into all the early hardcore stuff, I have minor threat and flipper tattoos I got as a teen and all this imagery was something that got me inspired to pick up photography for sure! Vignette and flash are a huge part of my work too so I love that you mentioned that as a style. Awesome read and great links to rabbit holes to go down - that’s what the internet is all about right!? Thanks for sharing and looking forward to the next one Marc!
As someone who has been shooting punk/hardcore bands for 35 years, this list is a great starting point.
I could rattle off about 30 more but the one that has been ripped off the most in the punk/hc world is Charles Peterson.
Myself and almost everyone else that started shooting shows in the late80’s/early 90’s was influenced by him and copped the full negative prints (so you could see the edges of the frames) and the open shutter shots.
Charles is legendary, I knew of him previously from his grunge photos. Thanks for the reminder I’m going to go do a deep dive now. Also I looked at your photos on IG, so sick.
Without Murray Bowels (RIP), much of Bay Area punk of the 80’s and 90’s and well beyond would have been lost to history. He shot every band and every kid. If you haven’t come across his work in your current pursuits I recommend you check him and his new 1982-1995 retrospective, Hail Murray! https://www.kqed.org/arts/13968840/murray-bowles-punk-photography-book-hail-murray
I second that recommendation. A few more local N American scene recommendations, if you're interested:
There's also a great photographer named Ben DeSoto who not only documented the punk / hardcore scene in 1980s Houston, TX but also documented a bit of the early rap scene there too. Also in 1980s Texas was Pat Blashill who was snapping all the Austin stuff, lots from Raul's and The Ritz days.
As the one who shot the gritty, lo-fi photo that is the picture sleeve of The Germs’ “Forming,” I feel that my contribution is important.
Welcome to my Ted talk, and find me here at Punk Turns 30 Again. In my stack, you will read the sketches of my forthcoming memoir, which centers around how my best pals and I created and published the fanzine, LOBOTOMY.
Los Angeles punk contains multitudes. It was not ALL in a moshpit
That guy in the leather jacket in Cindy's photo , you can just imagine him saying "what do think this is ? a uniform? its more than that , its a way of life.'
I know someone else has mentioned this, too, but...huh?
No Pennie Smith, who took the most iconic photo of the Clash, and probably most of the iconic images of the Jam.
No Erica Echenberg, who took all of the most iconic images of the Damned.
No Jill Furmanovsky, Adrian Boot, Dennis Morris, Ian Dickson, and Ray Stevenson, who all took some of the most iconic images of the Sex Pistols, Buzzcocks, Stranglers, Ramones, and plenty of other punk bands. Most of which were British.
And even Kevin Cummins and Anton Corbijn who took all of the iconic images of Joy Division are missing.
Punk started here, in the UK, after some seeds had been sown in New York, which was fabulously covered by Bob Gruen and Roberta Bayley, both of whom are also missing. So, if you're going to compile a list of photographers associated with the genre, at least title it correctly by adding a little caveat, such as The most Important Punk Photographers (Except for those who really were the Most Important), or something like that.
The following is not a list of the best punk photographers ever. Instead, it is compiled of the photographers whose photos have impacted my current pursuits in punk and hardcore photography, in no particular order or time sequence.
For me, and most here of my generation in the UK who were 16 or 17 in ‘76-‘77 it is the Pistols.
Of course, there are earlier bands and artists you might cite as ‘punk’, such as Iggy, the Velvets, Dolls, etc, and I would certainly agree they were significant and essential influences on punk, but, and this is the important distinction, they weren’t punk because punk came about because of the Pistols. They influenced, and were responsible for, the Clash, Buzzcocks, the Damned, the Jam, and every other major UK band of the period.
What happened in the US, either before or after the Pistols, was, for the former most definitely not punk, eg Television or the Ramones, important though they were and, once they’d been accepted here, and much more readily and enthusiastically than they ever were in the States, they absolutely ‘became’ punk, and for the latter, eg the California bands of the late
70s and early 80s, such as Black Flag or X, were punk, but absolutely influenced by the Pistols, who, obviously begat them.
So that’s my rationale for saying the Pistols started it all. And though, of course, I’m not saying you had to be there to understand the time or the culture, it certainly remains my abiding memory that the Pistols were the absolute progenitors of the genre.
I mean, if you want to go back to earlier versions, you’d have to go back to Elvis or Chuck Berry, and why stop there? What about Satchmo, or Mozart? I mean, they were all revolutionary in their own way, just as the MC5 or the Who were, but none can claim primacy over the Pistols to have been the first and most important Punk band.
So, as I said, I am serious when I make that claim for the Sex Pistols, Jamie.l
Except...Buzzcocks were around already when they first saw The Sex Pistols, so you can't even say they were the first UK punk band. Certainly, they, along with McLaren codified things that were happening already. But in the US Rocket From the Tombs split off into Dead Boys and Pere Ubu by '76. If Dead Boys isn't punk, I don't know what is. All this is to say, music genres never start in a vacuum. Sex Pistols definitely were a massive cultural hammer and created an archetype—there's a reason they're a lot of people's introduction to punk bands, they were one of mine back in the early 80s and I would never dismiss their importance or how crucial an impact they had on whatever punk is, as did the UK—but groups of misfits trying to break into the future while thumbing their nose at the past, were happening all over. Kids in Toronto like The Viletones were getting their cues from the Ramones crossing the border into Canada in 1976, Teenage Head was already a band by then too. Even out in LA, The Weirdos started in like, mid 70s.
So yeah, I'm not trying to split hairs or even talk about The Stooges or VU or even The Sonics...punk, as a music, didn't really start at any single ground zero, and definitely not at any one band, which is why I think it's a fruitless discussion. There's never an absolute. What I will admit is that The Sex Pistols were a hugely influential part of a back and forth conversation, and their tentacles reached everywhere.
Buzzcocks were just Pete Shelley and Howard Devoto when they invited the Pistols to Manchester for the first of their two Lesser Free Trade Hall gigs. They corralled Steve Diggle into joining them when they met him at the first Pistols gig. John Maher joined soon afterwards, and so, by the time of the second gig a month later, they had a band and were able to play support the Pistols.
But, whatever. It’s all highly subjective, but I strongly disagree there was no ground zero. There was, and it was called the Sex Pistols.
OMG! I'm so excited to read this tonight - I'm working on client work and have a deadline so mustn't get distracted haha but saw this pop up and just know it's gonna be such a cool read. Thank you!
Fair call, this was not a list of the best ever more so the most influential to me. With the Americans getting the nod due to the involvement in skate and surf. Mix in the involvement with Hip Hop also.
I could have easily continued the list with the next being Derek Ridgers and Caroline Coon.
I’m knocked off and back! Wow what a cool fucking substack newsletter this was. I’m a huge Ed colver fan and was well into all the early hardcore stuff, I have minor threat and flipper tattoos I got as a teen and all this imagery was something that got me inspired to pick up photography for sure! Vignette and flash are a huge part of my work too so I love that you mentioned that as a style. Awesome read and great links to rabbit holes to go down - that’s what the internet is all about right!? Thanks for sharing and looking forward to the next one Marc!
I'm so glad you enjoyed the read and photos. Sounds like I have met a bigger Minor Threat fan than me.
Flash is newish for me, and there will be no turning back.
The Friedman photos are amazing. What an era.
Dude is the king, I watch so many of his interviews and his understanding of how important that time is. Coupled with his documentation is refreshing.
As someone who has been shooting punk/hardcore bands for 35 years, this list is a great starting point.
I could rattle off about 30 more but the one that has been ripped off the most in the punk/hc world is Charles Peterson.
Myself and almost everyone else that started shooting shows in the late80’s/early 90’s was influenced by him and copped the full negative prints (so you could see the edges of the frames) and the open shutter shots.
Charles is legendary, I knew of him previously from his grunge photos. Thanks for the reminder I’m going to go do a deep dive now. Also I looked at your photos on IG, so sick.
Pat Graham did an excellent podcast interview last year that talks about Charles Peterson a bit and how we all copped his style.
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/red-lens-podcast/id1635076882?i=1000658920775
Thank you! Just checked out your work. With punk/hc bands, you are generally shooting it because you already love it.
I took a break from shooting bands for most of the 2010’s and came back a few years ago.
There are SO MANY amazing photographers out there now, it’s hard to keep up with checking out people you hadn’t heard of.
Thanks for putting this Substack together.
Came here to say the same thing.
Without Murray Bowels (RIP), much of Bay Area punk of the 80’s and 90’s and well beyond would have been lost to history. He shot every band and every kid. If you haven’t come across his work in your current pursuits I recommend you check him and his new 1982-1995 retrospective, Hail Murray! https://www.kqed.org/arts/13968840/murray-bowles-punk-photography-book-hail-murray
Thanks for the recommendation, book looks so good. Another one for the list!
Look up Bev Davies who covered the Vancouver punk scene.
Sick thanks, I’m going to check it out!
I second that recommendation. A few more local N American scene recommendations, if you're interested:
There's also a great photographer named Ben DeSoto who not only documented the punk / hardcore scene in 1980s Houston, TX but also documented a bit of the early rap scene there too. Also in 1980s Texas was Pat Blashill who was snapping all the Austin stuff, lots from Raul's and The Ritz days.
When we were young.
As the one who shot the gritty, lo-fi photo that is the picture sleeve of The Germs’ “Forming,” I feel that my contribution is important.
Welcome to my Ted talk, and find me here at Punk Turns 30 Again. In my stack, you will read the sketches of my forthcoming memoir, which centers around how my best pals and I created and published the fanzine, LOBOTOMY.
Los Angeles punk contains multitudes. It was not ALL in a moshpit
So sick Theresa, thanks for sharing!
thanks. I share some more…. https://archive.commercialappeal.com/entertainment/remembering-the-heyday-of-punk-rock-ep-398488970-323988771.html
That guy in the leather jacket in Cindy's photo , you can just imagine him saying "what do think this is ? a uniform? its more than that , its a way of life.'
https://youtu.be/Cr_5_ea2sWg
awesome!
Thanks Pedro
Thanks for posting this! The world needs more Lester Bangs, Miles Davis, and the KLF!!!!
Glad you liked it Miquel, long live Lester!
no Jenny Lens?
Jenny have to be right there in the next lot of photographers for sure!
I know someone else has mentioned this, too, but...huh?
No Pennie Smith, who took the most iconic photo of the Clash, and probably most of the iconic images of the Jam.
No Erica Echenberg, who took all of the most iconic images of the Damned.
No Jill Furmanovsky, Adrian Boot, Dennis Morris, Ian Dickson, and Ray Stevenson, who all took some of the most iconic images of the Sex Pistols, Buzzcocks, Stranglers, Ramones, and plenty of other punk bands. Most of which were British.
And even Kevin Cummins and Anton Corbijn who took all of the iconic images of Joy Division are missing.
Punk started here, in the UK, after some seeds had been sown in New York, which was fabulously covered by Bob Gruen and Roberta Bayley, both of whom are also missing. So, if you're going to compile a list of photographers associated with the genre, at least title it correctly by adding a little caveat, such as The most Important Punk Photographers (Except for those who really were the Most Important), or something like that.
Not intended to be sarky, but really...?
The sub heading reads:
Inspiring my own pursuits
The first paragraph:
The following is not a list of the best punk photographers ever. Instead, it is compiled of the photographers whose photos have impacted my current pursuits in punk and hardcore photography, in no particular order or time sequence.
Fair enough, Marc. Not here to argue, but the title is grossly misleading.
I come, and now go, in peace.
Also not intending to be snarky, but saying punk started anywhere is like saying there was a first punk band. It just doesn't hold water.
There was. The Sex Pistols.
Definitely not a serious conversation then.
Deadly serious, Jamie…ha-ha!
For me, and most here of my generation in the UK who were 16 or 17 in ‘76-‘77 it is the Pistols.
Of course, there are earlier bands and artists you might cite as ‘punk’, such as Iggy, the Velvets, Dolls, etc, and I would certainly agree they were significant and essential influences on punk, but, and this is the important distinction, they weren’t punk because punk came about because of the Pistols. They influenced, and were responsible for, the Clash, Buzzcocks, the Damned, the Jam, and every other major UK band of the period.
What happened in the US, either before or after the Pistols, was, for the former most definitely not punk, eg Television or the Ramones, important though they were and, once they’d been accepted here, and much more readily and enthusiastically than they ever were in the States, they absolutely ‘became’ punk, and for the latter, eg the California bands of the late
70s and early 80s, such as Black Flag or X, were punk, but absolutely influenced by the Pistols, who, obviously begat them.
So that’s my rationale for saying the Pistols started it all. And though, of course, I’m not saying you had to be there to understand the time or the culture, it certainly remains my abiding memory that the Pistols were the absolute progenitors of the genre.
I mean, if you want to go back to earlier versions, you’d have to go back to Elvis or Chuck Berry, and why stop there? What about Satchmo, or Mozart? I mean, they were all revolutionary in their own way, just as the MC5 or the Who were, but none can claim primacy over the Pistols to have been the first and most important Punk band.
So, as I said, I am serious when I make that claim for the Sex Pistols, Jamie.l
Except...Buzzcocks were around already when they first saw The Sex Pistols, so you can't even say they were the first UK punk band. Certainly, they, along with McLaren codified things that were happening already. But in the US Rocket From the Tombs split off into Dead Boys and Pere Ubu by '76. If Dead Boys isn't punk, I don't know what is. All this is to say, music genres never start in a vacuum. Sex Pistols definitely were a massive cultural hammer and created an archetype—there's a reason they're a lot of people's introduction to punk bands, they were one of mine back in the early 80s and I would never dismiss their importance or how crucial an impact they had on whatever punk is, as did the UK—but groups of misfits trying to break into the future while thumbing their nose at the past, were happening all over. Kids in Toronto like The Viletones were getting their cues from the Ramones crossing the border into Canada in 1976, Teenage Head was already a band by then too. Even out in LA, The Weirdos started in like, mid 70s.
So yeah, I'm not trying to split hairs or even talk about The Stooges or VU or even The Sonics...punk, as a music, didn't really start at any single ground zero, and definitely not at any one band, which is why I think it's a fruitless discussion. There's never an absolute. What I will admit is that The Sex Pistols were a hugely influential part of a back and forth conversation, and their tentacles reached everywhere.
And…you may like this, too, Jamie…ha-ha!
https://open.substack.com/pub/markkureishy/p/reasons-to-be-cheerful-buzzcocks?r=2k7tqg&utm_medium=ios
Buzzcocks were just Pete Shelley and Howard Devoto when they invited the Pistols to Manchester for the first of their two Lesser Free Trade Hall gigs. They corralled Steve Diggle into joining them when they met him at the first Pistols gig. John Maher joined soon afterwards, and so, by the time of the second gig a month later, they had a band and were able to play support the Pistols.
But, whatever. It’s all highly subjective, but I strongly disagree there was no ground zero. There was, and it was called the Sex Pistols.
You might like this, Jamie…
https://open.substack.com/pub/markkureishy/p/reasons-to-be-cheerful-the-sex-pistols-771?r=2k7tqg&utm_medium=ios
OMG! I'm so excited to read this tonight - I'm working on client work and have a deadline so mustn't get distracted haha but saw this pop up and just know it's gonna be such a cool read. Thank you!
Thanks Lucy!
You get some work done and let me know what you think later.
Also in a full circle moment the initial idea for this came from your recent video.
Love this! But don't forget Naomi:
https://www.sethlorinczi.com/p/exit-naomi-saga-of-a-punk-photographer?r=30g2
Just the words “ most important” in this title piss me off.
Blimey, how on earth not a single brit name-droping, yawn-yawn, we are talking PUNK in the name of names!!!
https://punk77.co.uk/photographers/
Fair call, this was not a list of the best ever more so the most influential to me. With the Americans getting the nod due to the involvement in skate and surf. Mix in the involvement with Hip Hop also.
I could have easily continued the list with the next being Derek Ridgers and Caroline Coon.